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	<title>Comments on: Chapter VIII</title>
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	<link>http://writtenfire.com/archives/233</link>
	<description>A serial fantasy novel. Updates Wednesday and Saturday.</description>
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		<title>By: anon y mouse</title>
		<link>http://writtenfire.com/archives/233/comment-page-1#comment-567</link>
		<dc:creator>anon y mouse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jul 2008 02:00:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://writtenfire.com/?p=233#comment-567</guid>
		<description>I thought my comment might be a little long winded.  :)

I was looking at the parties from a newcomer&#039;s perspective (not necessarily Allen&#039;s, but something like it).  It makes sense for the rich to be blasé about it, but a newcomer might not be.  I probably wouldn&#039;t indulge in the impulse to eat everything, or, if I did, it probably wouldn&#039;t last long enough to earn me a bad reputation ;) ; but I was kind of making fun of myself because I&#039;d want to try everything.  I&#039;m glad that Allen was able to figure out what to do.  I hope I&#039;d figure it out, too.  Then again, if I&#039;d been in that world as long as Allen, I&#039;d probably pick up some of it anyway.  It doesn&#039;t sound like he&#039;s been invited to a lot of parties, but simply living where he does has probably given him some insight into how things work there.

I&#039;m not surprised that the feasts are fairly well regulated, but it wouldn&#039;t surprise me if some of the households had slightly different rules than each other.  What one family thinks is impressive won&#039;t be impressive to another.  This might just be a special dish that is always served.  Or it could be how something is taken care of.  Like I said, there are several ways it can be done.

The long time rich have procedures in place, but what about the nouveau rich?  A merchant who makes it big or something.  Or is the upper class basically static and doesn&#039;t change much?  What about smaller households? What about households on the lower edge of the high class?

It&#039;s nice to know how you deal with it, and it&#039;s nice of you to share your insight.  It helps me refine my understanding.  Thanks for taking the time to share (both your story and how you handle different things in it).

-A. mouse</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought my comment might be a little long winded.  <img src='http://writtenfire.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I was looking at the parties from a newcomer&#8217;s perspective (not necessarily Allen&#8217;s, but something like it).  It makes sense for the rich to be blasé about it, but a newcomer might not be.  I probably wouldn&#8217;t indulge in the impulse to eat everything, or, if I did, it probably wouldn&#8217;t last long enough to earn me a bad reputation <img src='http://writtenfire.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  ; but I was kind of making fun of myself because I&#8217;d want to try everything.  I&#8217;m glad that Allen was able to figure out what to do.  I hope I&#8217;d figure it out, too.  Then again, if I&#8217;d been in that world as long as Allen, I&#8217;d probably pick up some of it anyway.  It doesn&#8217;t sound like he&#8217;s been invited to a lot of parties, but simply living where he does has probably given him some insight into how things work there.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not surprised that the feasts are fairly well regulated, but it wouldn&#8217;t surprise me if some of the households had slightly different rules than each other.  What one family thinks is impressive won&#8217;t be impressive to another.  This might just be a special dish that is always served.  Or it could be how something is taken care of.  Like I said, there are several ways it can be done.</p>
<p>The long time rich have procedures in place, but what about the nouveau rich?  A merchant who makes it big or something.  Or is the upper class basically static and doesn&#8217;t change much?  What about smaller households? What about households on the lower edge of the high class?</p>
<p>It&#8217;s nice to know how you deal with it, and it&#8217;s nice of you to share your insight.  It helps me refine my understanding.  Thanks for taking the time to share (both your story and how you handle different things in it).</p>
<p>-A. mouse</p>
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		<title>By: Chad-Writtenfire</title>
		<link>http://writtenfire.com/archives/233/comment-page-1#comment-566</link>
		<dc:creator>Chad-Writtenfire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 01:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://writtenfire.com/?p=233#comment-566</guid>
		<description>Those typos fixed. Single quotes is right, and there should have been an &quot;against&quot; in the &quot;up against higher orders.&quot;

If you went to these parties all the time, you might get bored of them. These nobles and others have been attending similar parties their entire lives; the food and drink is just that to them, while the real meat is the political undercurrent.

There&#039;s a good deal left over, but the household is large; after the feast, the servants can eat their fill, and also there are donations to the temples and the poor to take care of the perishable items. Servants are kept in check by the steward and master chef, who won&#039;t let them touch any of the delicacies before the feast. Sometimes it&#039;s not good to be the servant. Food estimates are coordinated between the chef, steward, and  head of the household, so the servants won&#039;t make extra deliberately. After a lot of practice throwing these parties, they&#039;re pretty good at the estimates.

Thanks for the comment. Enjoyed it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Those typos fixed. Single quotes is right, and there should have been an &#8220;against&#8221; in the &#8220;up against higher orders.&#8221;</p>
<p>If you went to these parties all the time, you might get bored of them. These nobles and others have been attending similar parties their entire lives; the food and drink is just that to them, while the real meat is the political undercurrent.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a good deal left over, but the household is large; after the feast, the servants can eat their fill, and also there are donations to the temples and the poor to take care of the perishable items. Servants are kept in check by the steward and master chef, who won&#8217;t let them touch any of the delicacies before the feast. Sometimes it&#8217;s not good to be the servant. Food estimates are coordinated between the chef, steward, and  head of the household, so the servants won&#8217;t make extra deliberately. After a lot of practice throwing these parties, they&#8217;re pretty good at the estimates.</p>
<p>Thanks for the comment. Enjoyed it.</p>
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		<title>By: anon y mouse</title>
		<link>http://writtenfire.com/archives/233/comment-page-1#comment-565</link>
		<dc:creator>anon y mouse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 00:30:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://writtenfire.com/?p=233#comment-565</guid>
		<description>&quot;Kilin tried to wave the guards off, despite their ill-concealed frowns and apologetic protests, but came up higher orders.&quot; - but came &lt;i&gt;upon&lt;/i&gt; higher orders, maybe?  It sounds a little awkward to me as it is.

“Don’t you see,” Kilin said, “he thinks he’s bought you off now. What he said, “of some small use to you,” and the way he looked. It was a business exchange to him!” - you might consider using single quotes inside the double quotes; I don&#039;t know if it&#039;s an official rule or if it&#039;s just something that I think looks better.

I don&#039;t think Allen will have much choice about being embroiled in the dance of politics.  If nothing else, his mark will likely drag him into it.

It sometimes seems that Kilin is right; that the servants are the real masters.  In some ways servants have more freedom.  They can go places that their master can&#039;t.  And find out things that their master&#039;s positions wouldn&#039;t allow them to because of their visibility.  People would be more likely to recognize the master than the servant.

Maybe Kilin&#039;s father thinks a hundred guests &lt;i&gt;is&lt;/i&gt; a small gathering.  ;)

The cheers from the crowd reminded me of the half-hearted cheers in Monty Python and the Holy Grail, &quot;And the people rejoiced.  Yay!&quot;  :D

That sure was an extensive meal.  I wonder how much waste there is.  Even if the servants didn&#039;t make a dish for every person for every course, they have to make more then are likely to be chosen so that the host doesn&#039;t look like a cheapskate.  Are the servants allowed to eat the leftovers, or is that considered a bad idea because then they might be tempted to make more than they should?  If the servants don&#039;t get the food, does it go to the dogs (or other animals), or is it just thrown away?  I could see different families having different policies on this; ranging from &#039;we&#039;ve got money, we might as well show it&#039; to &#039;waste not, want not&#039;.

I have to admit, if I were at a party like that, I&#039;d be tempted to try everything, especially if there were exotic dishes that I hadn&#039;t ever had before.  This could be bad for several reasons.  If I tried to eat everything on the plate I&#039;d probably make myself sick.  If I didn&#039;t I&#039;d feel bad about wasting food.  I&#039;d also probably end up getting drunk, and I wouldn&#039;t like that.  Even though I&#039;ve never &lt;i&gt;been&lt;/i&gt; drunk, I can&#039;t imagine it&#039;s very fun.  I could see myself getting a reputation for being a glutton and a lush.  And that probably wouldn&#039;t be a good thing.

Poor Allen, being &#039;bought off&#039; like that.  I&#039;m more sentimental, and would probably keep the gift anyway (probably in a vault somewhere); but it&#039;s probably a good idea for him to sell it and put the money in the bank, especially since he thinks he&#039;d look ridiculous wearing it.

In response to the idea of adding politics to this chapter, I get the impression that we will be seeing enough of the politics later on.  One that we already know about is Allen going to the dance (if he ever gets around to asking Jaella).  So you don&#039;t need to worry about putting too much of it here.  A little bit might be interesting, though.  I didn&#039;t have a problem with the brevity of the meal overview, but that would be a good place to put some of it.

-A. mouse</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Kilin tried to wave the guards off, despite their ill-concealed frowns and apologetic protests, but came up higher orders.&#8221; &#8211; but came <i>upon</i> higher orders, maybe?  It sounds a little awkward to me as it is.</p>
<p>“Don’t you see,” Kilin said, “he thinks he’s bought you off now. What he said, “of some small use to you,” and the way he looked. It was a business exchange to him!” &#8211; you might consider using single quotes inside the double quotes; I don&#8217;t know if it&#8217;s an official rule or if it&#8217;s just something that I think looks better.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think Allen will have much choice about being embroiled in the dance of politics.  If nothing else, his mark will likely drag him into it.</p>
<p>It sometimes seems that Kilin is right; that the servants are the real masters.  In some ways servants have more freedom.  They can go places that their master can&#8217;t.  And find out things that their master&#8217;s positions wouldn&#8217;t allow them to because of their visibility.  People would be more likely to recognize the master than the servant.</p>
<p>Maybe Kilin&#8217;s father thinks a hundred guests <i>is</i> a small gathering.  <img src='http://writtenfire.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>The cheers from the crowd reminded me of the half-hearted cheers in Monty Python and the Holy Grail, &#8220;And the people rejoiced.  Yay!&#8221;  <img src='http://writtenfire.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>That sure was an extensive meal.  I wonder how much waste there is.  Even if the servants didn&#8217;t make a dish for every person for every course, they have to make more then are likely to be chosen so that the host doesn&#8217;t look like a cheapskate.  Are the servants allowed to eat the leftovers, or is that considered a bad idea because then they might be tempted to make more than they should?  If the servants don&#8217;t get the food, does it go to the dogs (or other animals), or is it just thrown away?  I could see different families having different policies on this; ranging from &#8216;we&#8217;ve got money, we might as well show it&#8217; to &#8216;waste not, want not&#8217;.</p>
<p>I have to admit, if I were at a party like that, I&#8217;d be tempted to try everything, especially if there were exotic dishes that I hadn&#8217;t ever had before.  This could be bad for several reasons.  If I tried to eat everything on the plate I&#8217;d probably make myself sick.  If I didn&#8217;t I&#8217;d feel bad about wasting food.  I&#8217;d also probably end up getting drunk, and I wouldn&#8217;t like that.  Even though I&#8217;ve never <i>been</i> drunk, I can&#8217;t imagine it&#8217;s very fun.  I could see myself getting a reputation for being a glutton and a lush.  And that probably wouldn&#8217;t be a good thing.</p>
<p>Poor Allen, being &#8216;bought off&#8217; like that.  I&#8217;m more sentimental, and would probably keep the gift anyway (probably in a vault somewhere); but it&#8217;s probably a good idea for him to sell it and put the money in the bank, especially since he thinks he&#8217;d look ridiculous wearing it.</p>
<p>In response to the idea of adding politics to this chapter, I get the impression that we will be seeing enough of the politics later on.  One that we already know about is Allen going to the dance (if he ever gets around to asking Jaella).  So you don&#8217;t need to worry about putting too much of it here.  A little bit might be interesting, though.  I didn&#8217;t have a problem with the brevity of the meal overview, but that would be a good place to put some of it.</p>
<p>-A. mouse</p>
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		<title>By: Chad-Writtenfire</title>
		<link>http://writtenfire.com/archives/233/comment-page-1#comment-562</link>
		<dc:creator>Chad-Writtenfire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 03:05:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://writtenfire.com/?p=233#comment-562</guid>
		<description>Kilin is just blending together three comments his father made: &quot;It is only a small thing, but perhaps you will find some use for it,&quot; and &quot;Please take this small token of my gratitude,&quot; and &quot;May it be of great use to you, as you have been to me.&quot; He&#039;s fixating on the word small, so that for him it dominates his father&#039;s whole speech and refers directly to his father&#039;s opinion of him.

People do that sort of thing all the time in conversation, so it&#039;s a deliberate thing on my part, but Kilin really remembers it that way, so it&#039;s unintentional on his.

The politics of the scene would have been a bunch of obnoxious nobles talking down to Allen, sucking up to the Baron, and doing something in-between whenever they talked to Kilin, meanwhile reminding him of his near-death and rescue by a peasant. I could add a few lines saying that, just to reinforce the idea of the unpleasant nobility that you&#039;ve already seen in Count Thaesil and, to a lesser degree, in Baron Vreis here.

Not all of them are bad, but they aren&#039;t kept in check very well--they&#039;re practically immune to retaliation except by the king or another noble in a feud--so they tend to be self-centered egotists and extremely rude to boot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kilin is just blending together three comments his father made: &#8220;It is only a small thing, but perhaps you will find some use for it,&#8221; and &#8220;Please take this small token of my gratitude,&#8221; and &#8220;May it be of great use to you, as you have been to me.&#8221; He&#8217;s fixating on the word small, so that for him it dominates his father&#8217;s whole speech and refers directly to his father&#8217;s opinion of him.</p>
<p>People do that sort of thing all the time in conversation, so it&#8217;s a deliberate thing on my part, but Kilin really remembers it that way, so it&#8217;s unintentional on his.</p>
<p>The politics of the scene would have been a bunch of obnoxious nobles talking down to Allen, sucking up to the Baron, and doing something in-between whenever they talked to Kilin, meanwhile reminding him of his near-death and rescue by a peasant. I could add a few lines saying that, just to reinforce the idea of the unpleasant nobility that you&#8217;ve already seen in Count Thaesil and, to a lesser degree, in Baron Vreis here.</p>
<p>Not all of them are bad, but they aren&#8217;t kept in check very well&#8211;they&#8217;re practically immune to retaliation except by the king or another noble in a feud&#8211;so they tend to be self-centered egotists and extremely rude to boot.</p>
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		<title>By: nabi al-raml</title>
		<link>http://writtenfire.com/archives/233/comment-page-1#comment-560</link>
		<dc:creator>nabi al-raml</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 01:37:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://writtenfire.com/?p=233#comment-560</guid>
		<description>*&quot;his&quot; worth, not him worth. Note to self: don&#039;t type comments when tired.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>*&#8221;his&#8221; worth, not him worth. Note to self: don&#8217;t type comments when tired.</p>
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